H+ Elbow Semantics

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  • H+ discussion group
  • Jigsaw
  • How we do discussion group
  • Introductions


  • Kevin - here to meet nice people
  • Rob - listen and make ice cream
  • Budi - here to be educated
  • Arlan - nice to come into this group and have a quick discussion about everything from music and new age ideals to findings of interconnectivity
  • Jay / Zeb - organizer of another meetup group about Taoism
  • Li - here to get other people's ideas and input
  • Trevor - here because the idea of collective intelligence turns me on
  • Ryan - writing software for a number of years, here to find like minded individuals who don't just study algorithm
  • Strand - into the discussion
  • Willow -


wiki definition of semantics

What do you want to cover today?

  • Rob - singularity, relationship of h+ to humanism
  • Budi - transhumanism and maker society; what transhumanism is
  • Arlan - resiliance, how a human can be more and more resiliant; link to real world application
  • Jay - FM230 - RU a Transhuman
  • Li - cybernetics, bolidy and menal extensions, what technical backgrounds we have / what we're working on
  • Trevor - pass for now
  • Ryan - adding color to it, to focus on AI
  • Strand - not adding anything
  • Kevin - religion, is it good to make a religion out of it; open source
  • Trevor - what do we mean by consciousness and what we mean by that?
  • Traditional versus transitory
  • Application workshop

What transhumanism is:

  • Willow's overview
  • Kevin - Taking what mother nature gave us and saying that's not good enough
  • general response - that's just technology
  • Arlan - soul, mind, process
  • Li - technology, but also needs the tech to influence the body; feedback loop so tech isn't just a tool
  • Trevor - not just body, but chassis that carries your consciousness
  • Difference between Harraway and cybernaticuns
  • Budi - difference between transhuman and post human?
  • Li - comes from human (can be traced back), but no longer human
  • Budi - android is post human?
  • Li - I came from a human society, can trace back. AI develops more on its own than through hman input
  • Jay - longevity of life as a part of it?
  • Kevin - AI goes in its own direction - like friendly AI, if you don't include that part
  • Willow - not just enhancing, but altering
  • Arlan - adding something foreign to our bodies to do something better, but to actually do something different
  • Rob - so an airplane is transhuman?
  • Li - even if you just add powers to human, does that make them post human?

What is post human, then?

  • Budi - able to transcend human form into something else; replacing parts is not transcending
  • Arlan - question of the internet; death of your internet being after you die; if I'm a being I want to live forever, some form of immortality
  • Jay - world peace; spiritual or social transcendence
  • Li - media does a good job of showing what H+ can do. Like Neo can do anything, inside the Matrix is post human, what happens if he dies within the real world but continues to exist in the Matrix? What about ressurecting someone from their memories? Existing in a computer, so can teleport, fragment experience, etc
  • Trevor - cautious definition as seperation of consciousness from necessary biological form (you no longer require it, but can still use it).
  • Ryan - I think of transitory; something that isn't biological but scalable. Someting you can put in your brain where you have exact same output but more efficient
  • Strand - I don't know what post human is. My working definition of what makes someone human is the ability to tell stories. So post human would be the inability to create cohesive stories
  • Kevin - not so much as just transcending your body, but also transcending the laws of reality (not having to dedicate years to study), instant learning, manifestation of desires
  • Rob - humans are a species, once a decendant of ours cannot reproduce with humans, it is post human
  • Strand - biological reporduction? What about memetic organisms? Like an AI reproducing with the ideas it interacts with
  • Rob - would that still be human? I don't know. Not a biological organism.

What is human?

  • Arlan - human is, at its lowest form, an organism that has cells that has offshoots, resonates with some things but not with others. Mind transitioning us to the future in a healthy way, allows us some art, some capabilities of interaction; huge condition with it
  • Jay - Teilhard De Chardan saw evolution going to ULTRAHUMAN, which is sort of like transhuman; transcending the whole earth, the omega point. Being terrestrial beings. Being human is being an agent of change towards the ultra human
  • Li - not so much about being human, but about Rob's point on offspring. What if you're infertile?
  • Rob - a neutered dog is still a dog
  • Li - go with a genetic definition of human. Do artificial insemination stuff; hard to have a boundary because we're already incorporating a lot of peripheries to our being. There hasn't been a time that we haven't had external things
  • Willow - external things including social things
  • Rob - and the written word
  • Li - so yes, genetic thing but also external objects
  • Trevor - not possible to define one person as human due to glitches. But HUMANITY yes. Potential to consider its place in the universe and guide its own future.
  • Arlan - some people would argue with you, everyone is perfect just different needs associated with each
  • Ryan - being hman is the summation of all the context that comes from all human sensory input - theory I'm toying with right now is that humans are deterministic, how everything interacts with everything else
  • Strand - pattern finding, tool usage, story telling, domesticate animals/breeding
  • Kevin - need input from everyone. Human is an adjective; doesn't apply to people like Hitler; community and relationships
  • Rob - avoid genetic definition; universal human rights doesn't apply to animals, we have concepts of right and wrong, ethics; rights are a mutual agreement, agree that we need to protect animals
  • Budi - human is a specific strand of DNA; satisfy our own needs and wants but desire to be better; also like Strand's definition of process
  • Willow - standard deviations
  • Trevor - like to get away from social behaviors as being human; girl they found in a cage was still human
  • Kevin - biology determines our social as well;
  • Strand - humanity is the source of most of my anxiety
  • Ryan - even in small microcasm, still creating own language
  • Rob - Sam Harris and how ethics can be based on science - values being based on improving experience of conscious beings; Humanism, our humanity is the source of our values
  • Arlan - master storyline

Next topic requests:

  • Kevin - Religion
  • Rob - biotech, particiularly in food
  • Arlan - whatever the magazine covers
  • Jay - longevity
  • Trevor - transhumanism in media (news, games, fiction, tv, etc)
  • Ryan - brain connection interface
  • Strand - practical problems of space travel
  • Kevin - sexuality
  • Budi - transfer consciousness
  • Singularity